Cynarae
Interview with Kyle Oels (Vocals)
Introduction/Questions by Jim Walkley of Don't Be
Swindle zine
Live photos by Will Butler
Seattle,
Washington's Cynarae fuse the grueling, crust-endebted aural wreckage of bands
such as Mörser or Systral with a weighty nod to '90's metallic hardcore as
outlined by Catharsis and Unruh. Unlike
vast numbers of modern "crust"-inspired acts, however, Cynarae are
passionately political, outspoken in their ties to activist causes, and
refreshingly D.I.Y. In short, don't
confuse them with "trend crust"; thankfully, Cynarae an actual
hardcore band who are equally at home playing a word-of-mouth basement show or
a more traditional, over-21 venue.
Cynarae were selected to play New Directions Fest 2012 this past August
in Olympia; the band also participated in a successful benefit for Queers
Fucking Queers at legendary Seattle D.I.Y. venue The Morgue. Not to mention that they also had the great
honor of playing the secret, second-to-last Undertow show at rad Seattle D.I.Y.
space The Black Lodge. Cynarae opened
for a reactivated Kiss It Goodbye here in Seattle this past June, and vocalist
Kyle Oels generously took the better part of an hour for this interview, which
follows in full.
Jim: Your Bandcamp page says that Cynarae
are "____violence". What would
you put in that blank?
Kyle: I think that our drummer wrote
that, and it was a play on all the separate genres; it's "over-genre
classification" … everyone wants to be "emo-violence", or
"grindcore-violence" …
Jim: "Powerviolence" …
Kyle: Everybody wants to be some sect of
hardcore; so it was just, "fill in the blanks" — tell us what we are
… we are whatever you say! We've been
called so many different types of things.
Jim: It's interesting, because when I saw
you guys live … I know Dom Romeo (A389 Records label owner) wrote up that blurb
about you guys, in which he likened Cynarae to "Mörser/Acme/Systral"
with a "His Hero Is Gone/The Swarm" aspect to your sound. That seems to come out more on the demo …
Acme and Systral were a bit more chaotic, but they were almost more
"tech-y", in a way … whereas Cynarae, especially live, sound much
more like "metallic hardcore" of a sort, or even powerviolence. Do you think that's a legit interpretation,
or are you guys in fact going for a crustier, but more technical sound?
Kyle: I know that when we started out, we
had a few bands in mind that we wanted to be in the same realm as, but I can
definitely see a lot of what people compare us to — although that wasn't our
intention. In terms of Acme and Systral,
yeah, the Systral Black Smoker record is awesome, and that's a really
crusty, heavy, destructive record. And
Acme, of course, I grew up loving that, too; same kind of deal, really chaotic
and destructive. However, from my
viewpoint, we always wanted to be a bit more straightforward. In some of the newer stuff, there are some
trickier riffs … but it still makes sense; it's "accented", in a
sense …
Jim: That was the thing about that Black Smoker
LP. The first few times I heard it — and
it's only recently that I've gotten beyond this — it almost sounded like
different bands playing at once! Some
riff will come in out of nowhere … I can't remember how many guitarists they
had in that band —
Kyle: — I know that Mörser had at least
three. I don't know how many Systral
had, though. And Morser had … two bass
players? It seems like it was something
weird like that!
Jim: I can hear the Systral/Mörser
influence in Cynarae's guitar tone, and how you would be comparable to those
bands, but at the same time … every time somebody compares something to
"'90's metallic hardcore", it's a loaded comparison —
Kyle: — Totally …
Jim: — because your band doesn't sound
like that, in a sense, but I can see the band growing out of that in an organic
way.
Kyle: We were talking about this earlier
— the two bands that I wanted to capture the "feel" of were Unruh and
Catharsis. Those are two bands that we
all love. We thought those two bands had
a really intelligent approach, but Unruh sonically is just destruction, at
least to me. It just sounds like pure
hatred! (Laughter) Hatred, for lack of a better term — because
Unruh were so over-the-top, and angry.
And that's what I want. When we
started this band … I wanted us to be the angriest that we could be; I wanted
the slow parts to be crushing, and the fast parts to be blistering. I wanted to be every extreme that we possibly
could be … that's what we're going for, in a sense. Catharsis and Unruh make sense from that
point of view, but what you were saying about "metallic hardcore" —
that can mean anything, you know? That
can be Integrity, or that can be, you know … (Laughter)
Jim: … Kiss It Goodbye …
Kyle: Exactly. It can mean anything.
Jim: Fall Silent comes to mind, as well …
Kyle: And Fall Silent are the perfect
example of a band that defies comparison, because they had so much punk
influence, so much metal influence, and so much hardcore influence —
Jim: — And even a slight rap influence!
Kyle: Yeah — there was that
"weird" element, too … I guess you could say that they were all over
the map. And seeing them live, in the
'90's, in Reno … those shows were insane, because everybody would come — punk
kids, metal kids, hardcore kids …
Jim: Levi Watson (vocals) of Fall Silent
described those shows to me. Were they
ever dangerous, or fraught with tension?
Kyle: Always!
Jim: I guess what was going on then was
that there was some sort of feud between Fall Silent and some of the more
"negative edge" members of the community.
Kyle: There was always tension.
Jim: Unconquered were always giving them
trouble, for instance …
Kyle: It was mutual trouble, I would
say! They probably gave Unconquered as
much trouble as Unconquered gave them!
(Laughter) That's why it was
always sort of funny for me, because I was stuck in the middle — I loved Fall
Silent as a band, and I wasn't a "fighter" … but I've been straight
edge since I was about fifteen; I identified more with Fall Silent, but I was
sort of in the middle. And I was never
involved in any of that stuff; however, it was definitely around … and
everybody knew about it.
Jim: And Fall Silent provoked it; for
instance, the song where Levi says, "fuck your movement" and that
"negative edge won't last" … (Laughter)
Kyle: One of my favorite songs of all
time! (Laughter) You know what I mean!? I love that song! But in talking to Levi in years past, I feel
like he could have worded that sentiment a lot better … if he just hadn't said
that statement, or worded it in a different way, I felt that it would have been
more successful. And wouldn't have led
to all the trouble that it created.
However … he was probably 19 when he wrote that, or whatever. It's simplistic: "fuck your
movement", I'm drawing a line …
Jim: Apparently, Levi had been one of
those kids as well … calling people out, just saying shit to cause trouble.
Kyle: That's really common in Reno, in
general. Outside of straight edge, or
even outside of the hardcore movement … it's common in Reno for people to fight
— all the time; there are always people "crewing up", or starting
drama and issues, in every sub-sect that you can think of, whether it's
skateboarding kids, or punk kids, or jocks.
Those are typical classifications, but overall, it's common in
Reno. To get back to Levi … he was in a
band called New Blood —
Jim: — Yeah …
Kyle: I don't know if you've ever heard
them, but they were a straight edge band, and Glenn from Unconquered was in
that band. When New Blood broke up, they
split into two camps: Fall Silent and Unconquered … there was always tension,
always drama, always fights …
Jim: … because Fall Silent had
non-straight edge members, as well …
Kyle: They were just about different
stuff. Those two bands wanted to write
about different things; Fall Silent didn't want to be limited, which I always
respected …
Jim: And Levi's lyrics were awesome.
Kyle: Best lyrics! I loved his lyrics, as well as his approach,
and his delivery … no one else could front that band! People sometimes said, "Ugh … I hate the
sound of his voice", and at first, I could see how people could say that …
but to me, no one else could front that band.
It's also true that he could never front another band.
Jim: That's an interesting concept,
because according to some of the other members of Fall Silent, they hated
Levi's vocals in the band. They didn't
like his lyrics; didn't like his vocals … for instance, Danny was more into
death metal —
Kyle: — Danny became a really good friend
of mine … but that's what was so great about them, because they could
seamlessly blend … some of Danny's riffs could be off of an early Deicide
record, or Morbid Angel record —
Jim: — And all of that palm-muting in the
guitar riffs …
Kyle: Yeah, those half-step breakdowns …
they were so flawless, but they could have been from an early Deicide record,
whereas Levi's vocals could have been from an early 7 Seconds record. But it just worked! Everything came together — hardcore kids
loved them, metal kids loved them, punk kids loved them … and that's why I felt
like they were a band beyond definition.
(Deleted conversation about the band
Gehenna, removed at the request of Kyle.)
Kyle: … I don't know if it was just
because I was younger, but shows in the '90's, in a broad sense, were
scary. There was a sense of
uneasiness. Never knowing what's going
to happen. Especially Reno, as compared
to Seattle … a much different vibe.
(A further deleted conversation about
Gehenna vocalist Mike Cheese.)
Kyle: I recently talked to Mike about
playing some shows. I've known those
guys for a very long time.
Jim: Gehenna played Gilman Street
recently, I believe.
Kyle: Yes … they're also playing a fest
in Southern California; they're very active, they definitely play more shows
now. Anyway … a trip down memory lane …
Jim:
Yeah, sorry … kind of a giant diversion there …
Kyle: Yeah.
Jim: There's another statement on your
Bandcamp page: "See you in the dollar bin". It seems that you could interpret that in a
couple of different ways. First of all,
it's almost as if it's a statement claiming, "We'll see your band in
the dollar bin" … but the more common interpretation would be that so much
of this entire heavy music/aggressive music scene, as much cult status as it
achieves … so much of it is ultimately forgotten. Years later, you're looking for a Fall Silent
CD, or whatever it is you're looking for — and you find it in the dollar bin.
Kyle: Totally! This form of music that we do, this
"niche" of music that we all do, is never going to be super-popular —
which is good, in a lot of ways, at least coming from a punk mentality. I don't want this stuff to be popular,
because then it would become watered down … it would become stupid, in my
opinion! The simple answer about that
Bandcamp statement is that Jeffrey (drums) wrote that because he thought it was
funny! (Laughter)
Jim: And it is funny! (Laughter)
Kyle: It is, and what I like about it is
that it's a recognition: we're never going to be popular; this music itself
will never be popular. I'd rather have
it be genuine. Genuine anger; something
that's a threat to the status quo.
People can draw any conclusions as to what that means, but I don't want
this music to ever be safe. I don't want
it to be something that's approved by everybody. The reason that I'm angry is because of the
society that we live in, and the things that I see and observe. That observation is where all of my lyrics
come from. None of it is personal, in
that sense; it's an observation of the way things are around us. To me, punk and hardcore were meant to be a
reaction to that society … I'm not saying, "If you have a job, then you're
not punk" — nothing like that, because there are ways that we have to
assimilate into common society, but at the same time, this is how I deal with
living in this society.
Jim: It's your reaction to it.
Kyle: It's what keeps me functioning, in
a way. (Laughter) I don't know what I would do without it.
Jim: Cynarae are now signed to A389, and
that label does a lot of stuff with Scion-sponsored events. I happened to talk to your bassist at that
Black Lodge show, and he was saying that he didn't like Scion-related events …
would your band ever play a show like that?
Kyle: I mean … I don't know. I can't say definitively; there's not a
stance that we have about that … whereas some of the other ideologies that we
have, we have a very specific stance on it.
We'd really rather play all ages shows, if we can; obviously, tonight's
show with Kiss It Goodbye is an exception, but it's an exception we made
because this is a really good opportunity.
In general, however, we'd rather play all ages shows. We definitely would not play a show if there
were certain ideologies that we disagree with — for instance, if there was any
sort of racism/sexism/homophobia, we wouldn't do it. Those problems are insidious, though, so
there's no real way to track that. But
if it was something that was obvious, we wouldn't do it. To get back to Scion, it's not something that
we've really talked about, but it's also something that … I guess I don't
really care about it, personally. Scion
puts on shows for free. Granted, you
could make the argument that they're leeching off of the punk and hardcore
community, to a degree … but I doubt that hardcore kids are going out and buying
Scion cars because of these shows! I
don't really understand what their "angle" is. If they're trying to "market" to
hardcore kids, I think it's a lost cause … because hardcore kids are not going
to run out and buy things like that.
Jim: What I've heard is that someone at
Scion is supposedly a genuine fan of punk/hardcore/metal, and they've worked
with a bunch of different bands — Bastard Noise, Integrity, Ringworm …
Kyle: Yeah, and that's the thing: it
would be really hard to say "no" to an Integrity and Ringworm
show. You know? That was the last Scion thing, and those are
two bands that I've loved forever … I don't "get" why Scion's
involved, but at the same time, personally, I don't care. I can't speak for the band, though. If Ryan (bassist) had a huge problem with it,
we wouldn't play. To me, it doesn't
really matter — if they were charging tons of money and then keeping all that
money, and bands weren't being paid, then that would be a problem. Or something along those lines. But I don't really see how it's harmful. In general, people have such narrow
definitions of what punk and hardcore should be. To me, I don't care about that (narrow
definitions). If it was Jagermeister, or
an animal testing company, then I would have a real fuckin' problem with that …
(Laughter)
Jim: (Laughter) I agree.
On your newer material — such as your upcoming split with 
Ancient Shores
— does any of that material feature something like the "breakdown" section
of your song "Peasants" from the demo? In the newer stuff that Cynarae's doing, are
you still working that element into the band?
I thought that was a really awesome opening musical statement. The rest of the demo doesn't quite sound like
that, in a way, but one thing that I enjoyed about that demo so much was that
each song shows a different side of the band.
There's that slower, more song-based track; the opening song has that
breakdown part; other songs are more chaotic … is the newer material in the
vein of "Peasants"? Or are you
expanding on a different element of your sound?
Kyle: I don't know … we never sit down
and talk about what we want to sound like —
Jim: — I'm just asking about songs that
you might have already recorded that haven't been released yet.
Kyle: Right; there are definitely
elements of "Peasants" (in the newer songs), and to get back to the
demo, there's even what I would consider a full-on breakdown on "Prostrate
In Obeisance", which occurs later on in the demo. That has a full breakdown … it's actually
moshable, if you wanted to!
(Laughter) I don't really see
that happening at our shows, though.
That element pops up here and there, but we're probably not ever going
to be a band that kids go out and mosh for —
Jim: — You're not a "breakdown
hardcore band" —
Kyle: — but I love heavy parts, whatever
those end up being. And I'm a hardcore
kid, so I love breakdowns … at least to a degree. But that's not our goal. We just write what sounds good to us. Anyway, I'm kind of dancing around the
question. As far as that breakdown
element, there are a couple songs that are faster and more straight-forward,
with a heavy aspect, and then we have … in the new stuff, we kind of
experimented a little bit with what we were doing, to check out different
aspects of our sound. For instance,
there's a new song that's very long, with a clean guitar intro for a full
minute or minute-and-a-half …
Jim: Which is something that Cynarae
hadn't done before.
Kyle: Yeah, we hadn't done anything like
that before. To me, experiments like
that are fun, although it's probably not a song we'd play live. But it's interesting. We actually started working on that
"clean intro" song as a collaboration track with Ancient Shores; we
were going to write our parts, and then we were going to have them write parts
on top of that, then have two drummers, four guitar players …
Jim: That would have been awesome.
Kyle: It would have been really cool, but
when I envisioned it and we started writing for it, Geoff (one of Cynarae's
guitarists) had sort of a slower song … because, obviously, the song couldn't
be really fast; it would be really hard to keep it all together to do
that. Geoff started writing that slower
song, and he showed it to me, and I said, "This'd be perfect for that
collaboration", but ultimately, the logistical side of it didn't
work. They live in West Virginia and we
live out here in the Seattle area, so in order to really effectively accomplish
it, all ten of us would probably have to practice together —
Jim: — And that's just not possible.
Kyle: It's just not. We tried different things, such as posting
stuff online and asking them to write parts for it, but it ended up …
especially since we were recording at two different studios, the tones would
have been all over the map, and it wouldn't have sounded good. We've shelved that idea for awhile. Eventually, we'd like to see if Ancient
Shores would do a whole record with us like that. We've talked about it … but I don't know how
likely it is. Who knows; it might come
together organically.
Jim: That upcoming split is an
interesting pairing of bands, because Ancient Shores have a much more
"controlled" aspect to their sound; I don't want to say
"produced", but they have a much more "together" sound,
whereas your band is more grueling and chaotic.
It makes for an interesting pairing of bands; why have two bands that
are exactly the same?
Kyle: From the outset, we've talked about
doing splits — and we have a couple other splits in the future that may or may
not happen — but from the beginning, we wanted it to be … I don't want to flip
a record over and be like, "Which band is this again!?" The pairing with Ancient Shores came in
particular because Geoff, one of our guitar players, is from West Virginia, and
he grew up with those guys and has known them for a long time. It just so happened that we were going to be
on A389, and they were already on that label; their side of the split was going
to be with somebody else, but then they were like, "Hey, can we do this
instead with Cynarae?" We said
"yes" and it came together organically, because I really like doing
things with friends, more than I care about "people will buy this record
because such-and-such band is on the other side of the split"; I don't
really care about that. I want to put
out a record with people that we're somehow related to … I always thought
Ancient Shores had a cool Botch or Coalesce "chaotic hardcore"
element —
Jim: — And they do!
Kyle: Yeah, and even the newer stuff is
heavy, and aggressive, but still has that feel to it. I love that style of hardcore. It just sort of "worked"; it just
sort of happened. And, again, we could
do a split with a band that sounds closer to us … but I don't find that
interesting. I would rather do a split
with a punk band, or a noise band, or a band that sounds like, I don't know, My
Bloody Valentine, or something!
(Laughter) I loved playing mixed
bills, even though that doesn't really happen anymore, but I grew up going to
mixed bills. In fact, one of the first
hardcore shows I saw was an accident. I
went and saw Voodoo Glow Skulls, because I had a sort of ill-advised flirtation
with ska when I was about 13 … but I went to see Voodoo Glow Skulls, and Strife
was playing! And Strife in Reno, in the
'90's, was insane, as you can imagine.
It was like, "Oh my God — these giant men are killing each other;
what is this band!?" And, of
course, that was in the heyday of straight edge in Reno. It was blowing my mind! But that's how I got into hardcore. And the first time that I saw Fall Silent, it
was because I was going to see a Reno ska band called Suckapunch; then I saw
Fall Silent, and it was similar to Strife.
I didn't see Fall Silent on purpose until I saw them play with
Catharsis, Gehenna, and Unruh.
Jim: That would have been an amazing
show.
Kyle: I didn't even know what I was
seeing, then. Now, I'm like, "Oh my
God … that's insane!" That was the
first purposeful hardcore show that I ever went to … I also saw Fall Silent on
the Times Of Grace tour that Neurosis did — which was around the same
time as the show Fall Silent played with Converge and Today Is The Day.
Jim: We just talked about the Ancient
Shores split. When will that be out?
Kyle: We're not really sure. We're finishing up mixing. We got what will probably be the final mix
just today. We're not working on layout
and cover art this time. I've outsourced
that now — thank God, because the last one took so long to get the finished
product out; I did it myself, but I don't really have any skill in that field,
so … (Laughter)
Jim: You did the cover art on the demo?
Kyle: I designed it; Jeffrey (drums) did
the brown painting that's on the cover, then scratched our name into it with a
pencil! The logo itself came from us
taking a photo; he had another sheet on the pad, and it was rubbed in a little
bit, so he traced over it and took a picture … and that's the logo that we're
using now.
Jim: Sounds pretty punk!
Kyle: It's pretty D.I.Y.! Which I love, of course … Jeffrey painted the
cover on the demo; we used a couple of stock photos that I found, and then we
used a photo from Jeff's tattoo artist for the back cover. You'll see it later tonight on the LP (which
is the demo pressed to vinyl). It's the
photo of the smokestacks, which used to be on the inside of the cassette demo
tape. The theme for the artwork on this
LP is, basically, civilization crumbling or falling apart, a sort of urban
decay … which I find really interesting.
We had the idea that capitalism — and the way things are going in this
country — that it's pushing everything through the roof …
(Ryan, bassist of Cynarae, walks up to
the table).
Ryan: Oh … is this a business meeting!?
Jim and Kyle: (Laughter)
Kyle: Yeah, we're doing an
interview! Talk to you in a minute,
buddy! So, anyway, it's the idea that
capitalism and the "American way" is infallible, and will keep growing
… and yet, time and time again, we see cities like Detroit, or other areas,
that are falling apart and crumbling.
It's obvious that this American system is failing — in a lot of ways …
at least in my opinion. To me, I find it
a fascinating idea that it's not definitive that we'll keep progressing, or
that progress will even be able to still happen …
Jim: On the subject of that, and politics
in general, I personally find it so disappointing that — and without offending
anyone who feels differently — but I find it so depressing that Mitt Romney and
the Republicans have such a good chance of winning in November, because I feel
like we just got over the Bush years … and that memory is still way too fresh
to go down that road again! I'm not
saying that Obama has been this perfect President — because, obviously, that's
not true — but at the same time … come on!
Kyle: Yes, I lost faith a long time ago
in the political process … and I have to say that I don't know what to do with
all of that information, to be fair; I can't say, "Don't vote; it's a
waste of time" — I mean, it is, but it's at least good to vote with
local politics. There are people now in
Seattle who could hopefully get married, and that makes a lot of difference;
it's a big deal. And there's a lot of
social justice issues, civil rights stuff, that's being pushed through, as well
as the opposite, such as the war on women that's happening. For instance, North Carolina voting down gay
marriage. It goes both ways …
Jim: I agree, though: how much can one
person in Washington state really influence the entire national spectrum —
Kyle: — Exactly! It's really easy to say, "Fuck that —
don't vote; it's stupid". And, I
mean, in a lot of ways, I would agree with that! Yet, at the same time, people's lives are
being changed by local politics, or statewide politics; perhaps the electoral
college is a joke — and I agree … maybe it is!
(Laughter) And whoever becomes
our President is a figurehead. The President
is just enacting legislation being driven by giant corporations; that's what
he's putting in …
Jim: Regardless of the party he's in.
Kyle: Political party doesn't matter
anymore. It's money. It's class structure. It has nothing to do with
"Democrats", or any of that; I mean, Ron Paul is sketchy. All of it's sketchy!
Jim: (Laughter) He is sketchy …
Kyle: He is extremely sketchy! I'm sorry, but if somebody was editing a
journal with my name on it, I would check to make sure that none of it was
racist! (Laughter)
Jim: It's so head-scratching …
Kyle: One of the quotes that I heard
about that whole Ron Paul thing was, "How come every time we pick up a
white supremacist rock, Ron Paul's under it!?"
Jim: (Laughter)
Kyle: (Laughter) There's something to that! There's something to that … but, personally,
I've lost a lot of faith in the way things are going. And I don't what the answer is. That's a lot of what I interpret in my
lyrics.
Jim: And your lyrics are political, in
that sense?
Kyle: They are. But they're not political in the sense of,
"vote for this party", or "do this", or whatever. Basically, to me, my lyrics are a
documentation of horrible things that happen.
Jim: Is it at all related to that idea
that the hardcore zine HeartattaCk put forth in the '90's, that "the
personal is political"? Or is your
conception different than that?
Kyle: I think one thing that I've had
some trepidation with, or an issue with, or something that I've been fighting
about, is that issue of being political in a personal way. The lyrics are political in the strict sense
that I'm writing about a political topic.
For instance, "Peasants", the first track on the demo, is a
song about "dead peasant insurance policies", which is something that
many people aren't aware of, but those are insurance policies that big
companies take out on people, on rank-and-file workers, without their
knowledge. In effect, those companies
are gambling on someone's life. It's a
life insurance policy, so if that worker dies, the company is named as the
beneficiary. For example, Wal-Mart would
go in and take out a policy on a rank-and-file employee, and if or when that
person dies, Wal-Mart's named as the beneficiary.
Jim: And the employee's family is not?
Kyle: The family is not. Yeah.
It's really, horribly evil.
Jim: That is incredibly bad …
Kyle: Horribly evil! But because of the confidentiality policies
that insurance companies have, it's nearly impossible to find out who took out
an insurance policy — on you, on me, or whoever. You can't even really say … they have
examples of companies who've done it in the past, but it's hard to say who's
doing it now.
Jim: Do you believe that Wal-Mart would
be up to something like that?
Kyle: Totally!
Jim: They are a non-union store …
Kyle: Oh yeah; they hate unions —
Jim: — They've had some issues with
properly paying overtime, for instance.
Kyle: And, of course, slave labor … child
labor, and all of these horrific things that have been going on for many
years. No, they haven't cleaned up their
act. I'd say that none of those
corporations have. They'll put on the
pretense of cleaning up their act, but in reality, how can a major corporation
ever have any good intentions … you know what I'm saying? Like, why would they ever? Because it costs them money to have good
intentions — and, ultimately, the bottom line is what matters to them. But "Peasants" is an example of a
political topic, or a sociological topic … but it's more of an interest in,
"How are these people able to do these things!? And sleep at night?" How they justify it. On the new record, there's a song that deals
with "the war on women" — which is a catch-all term — but dealing
with the fact that it's 2012, and women are still fighting for control over
their bodies. It's insane! This has been going on for so long … why
shouldn't women be able to decide what happens to their bodies? And that's something that we as men will
never have to deal with, or worry about —
Jim: — But men have to deal with issues
such as whether they can get married in a same-sex relationship —
Kyle: — That's true —
Jim: — But you're right: those two things
are totally different, in a way …
Kyle: Yes, and it goes into
"straight male privilege" … which I could go on about for months!
Jim: We do experience that privilege …
Kyle: I'll never know what it's like to
walk down the street and be afraid that there's going to be an assault of some
kind on me; I'll never know what it's like to be yelled at and made to feel
that I'm less than somebody, just because I got hollered at on the street …
These are things that women deal with on a day-to-day basis, that I'll never
have to deal with — just because I'm a man … It's fucked up to think about. You know, you feel that your life is hard,
and you're pushing a rock up a hill; you're fighting against whatever it is
that's keeping you down. And then
imagine all that as a woman of color. Or
a trans woman of color. I mean, people
are still dying for the color of their fucking skin — that shit still happens,
and it happens regularly … Things really haven't gotten any better. Actually, part of me feels that things are
becoming a lot worse … there's a pretense of things getting better, but they
don't.
Jim: And the Conservative Right is still
just as rabid on their side, and it seems that they're impeding that progress —
Kyle: And I feel like they're winning —
because they're able to fight dirty, whereas the left side won't fight dirty,
which I think is kind of a problem.
(Laughter) You know? We need to attack them on their grounds! If there was ever a left-wing protest, and
someone brought a gun, that person would still be in indefinite detention. Yet the Tea Party can have a protest — and
everyone there can have a gun. And
that's fine?
Jim: A double standard.
Kyle: Totally! Anyway … I'm getting off-topic a little bit …
Jim: To bring it back to the music: you
try to work that aspect into it, but not in a preachy way, or totally being
obvious … a relation, without being spelled out. I guess it's like you were saying earlier
with Fall Silent, and how if Levi had been older, he might have phrased those
words differently. And that's what
you're attempting.
Kyle: You know, Levi is one of the best
lyricists of all time … I love his lyrics, but at the same time, I want to be
very careful about my words — because it lives on. Especially now that our demo has been pressed
to vinyl, people will be able to pick it up and read it years from now — so I
have to be careful about that. The
thing, to me, that's really interesting about it, is that anything I write
comes from a personal perspective.
Ultimately, you see the world through your own little keyhole. It's your own impression — whatever you have
to deal with is viewed through your own perspective. In that sense, everything I write is
inherently personal — I would never say, "Do this", or "Think
this way" … I'm saying: Here's something that's happening … and this is my
wish to understand what's happening. Here's my desire to see "why".
Jim: On the LP — the demo pressed to
vinyl — do you have song explanations?
Kyle: Yes. That's a big thing.
Jim: So if people pick up that LP, a lot
of this may become clearer to them …
Kyle: Totally, and that's something that
I hope to make part of every release; it's something I'd really like to try to
do … again, in the '90's, when I was just starting to go to shows, it was like,
"Here's what we're singing about.
Here's why we're pissed".
And I love that! That's what I
want. After all, you can't understand
what I'm saying when we're playing; it's loud, and nobody knows what the words
are about … I sometimes try to clarify between songs. Even at that Black Lodge show, I was trying to
talk a little bit about some issues … but the sound was kinda off, and I don't
think anybody could really hear what I was trying to say.
Jim: The sound really was off that
night. I think it might have something
to do with the concrete floors in that venue.
There was a lot of feedback, as well …
Kyle: Yeah, there was a lot of feedback …
I don't know why it sounded like that on that night; in general, our sound at
live shows is pretty good. At the same
time, we play a lot at D.I.Y. venues.
And they're not always able to buy new sound systems.
Jim: And it was still a rad show.
Kyle: And to me, it's more about that —
how it feels, rather than whether you can understand what I'm saying. Because, to be honest, you can't understand
what I'm saying when I'm singing, anyway.
(Someone stops by the table to chat for a
moment).
Jim: So is Cynarae going to play New
Direction Fest this year?
Kyle: We are! We played last year, too. It was a cool experience. I love the idea of where the New Direction
Fest is coming from, because I think it's something that's been divorced from
hardcore and punk for so long — the reason why we do this: the political aspect
… It's not that every band has to be political, or anything like that, but I
like bands that say something. Even if
it's something I disagree with, I would rather hear it …
Jim: For people who may not know about
that fest, it's more in the '90's sense — at least some of the better aspects
of those '90's fests — where they're going to have tabling, workshops … and the
phrase of the fest is, "From Anger To Action". It seems like a really cool thing to be
involved with, so I'm glad you guys are doing that.
Kyle: And again, it's our second time in
a row — it's been going on for two years, and we've played both years, which is
great. A big part of what New Direction
wants is people who are doing activism; rather than bands just singing about
stuff, it's about bands that actually go out and try to do stuff. And that's the connection with us, because
I've done a lot of activism, as well as the other members. Even something as simple as working at or
helping to run a D.I.Y. venue; our drummer, Jeffrey, helps out at Fusion Cafe,
which is a downtown D.I.Y. space …
Jim: And he's also doing a zine, which
ties into D.I.Y.
Kyle: Right, which is another
aspect. I'm really interested to see
it. He has a really cool perspective on
things. He never likes doing inherently
political things in hardcore — which is something that I love; but, honestly,
both approaches are cool, and important.
For me, I just feel that if I have a microphone, and I'm saying
something … I have an obligation to write about something that fucking matters. At least, something that matters to me. I should say something that I find
important.
Jim: To make the experience count for
something.
Kyle: Yeah! Those are the bands that stuck out for me,
the bands that said something — and it changed me. For instance, I'm vegan because I picked up a
pamphlet at an Earth Crisis show. Those
things made an impact on me. And not
that I'm under any illusion that we're in the same realm as a lot of those
bands — as far as how hugely popular they were …
Jim: But you have the opportunity …
Kyle: You can talk about things, and
trigger something in somebody. That's
great! Hardcore is what got me into
radical politics; it's what got me interested in animal rights activism, or
something like the May Day Protests, and the West Coast Port Shutdowns … all of
that comes out of (my being interested in) hardcore; that base point of
hardcore. I think these things are
important.
Jim: Do you feel like that aspect of
hardcore is making a comeback, in a sense?
Kyle: I hope so. I'm hopeful about that.
Jim: I mean, look at the New Direction
Fest; it's only existed for two years, but just the fact that NDF could exist
now … whereas things like that hadn't been happening since the '90's.
Kyle: Like the More Than Music Fest; that
was along similar lines … stuff like that was happening then. And I remember going to shows, and everyone
had a table with literature — which is something that we try to do; every time
we have a show, we try to have lit. Not
everyone in the band agrees on everything, but we definitely agree on some
things — such as consent, or sexual assault, that we can talk about (at shows)
… we can all agree on feminism, to a degree, even though that term can have
negative connotations. But we can all
agree: Why are people still being sexually assaulted, and why do we still
perpetuate the rape culture?
Jim: I saw another aspect of the band,
too, that relates more to the physical aspect of hardcore — something that's
always existed in aggressive music … when you played at The Black Lodge, and
that one guy tried to do a backflip — but hit his head on the concrete
instead. And you guys stopped, and you
asked him, specifically, "Are you okay?" Like, "Do you need medical attention?" Instead of barreling through: "just keep
playing", and the guy is going to die, or something! But you guys did make sure he was okay, and I
thought it was really cool that you did that, because it kept it at a human
level of concern.
Kyle: I don't know that guy from Adam —
he's … "whatever" — but there are a lot of reasons why I didn't want
him to be injured. A). I just don't want him to be injured. B). I
don't want him to be injured at The Black Lodge, which is an underground D.I.Y.
space where if someone brought a lawsuit, they are finished. But, it's dubious. A lot of people go so far to protect people
that they insist that no one run around, or no one move, and everyone stays in
their bubble … I think that's taking it a little far. I don't agree with that. I think there's a way that we can go off, and
have fun, bump into each other, and run around …
Jim: At every show I've been to at The
Black Lodge, people are going off.
Kyle: And that's a release! That's a physical release; that's why I do
this, at least to some degree. Sometimes
you just need to go off, and run around — and be pissed!
Jim: … in a relatively safe way.
Kyle: Sure. Yeah, I'm not saying …
Jim: — that you're just going to beat on
somebody, or something like that …
Kyle: Yeah, behavior like that doesn't
make any sense — but I also don't like it when people are watching a band,
standing there like this (crosses arms in front of his chest). Like, it's angry music. You know, let's see a little animation
here! You can go off and be aggressive
without being violent. There can be
physical running into each other and physical contact without violence.
Jim: And that's always existed in
hardcore.
Kyle: I feel like people take it really far
on the other side … and, to be fair, pretty far on both sides. There are definitely meatheads who go out and
just want to fight people — and that's bullshit, too. I think there's a medium to be found … and I
know that, actually, I smashed into you at that show … (Laughter)
Jim: (Laughter) Yeah, that's right! That was fine, though; I even joked with your
bassist, and said, "In a contest between Kyle and somebody else … Kyle is
going to win!" (Laughter) What can I do!?
Kyle: (Laughter) And I didn't even know
who I ran into! To me, running into the
crowd like that is a sort of physical manifestation of the anger going on.
Jim: The very first hardcore show I went
to was like that … and the very last one I go to will probably be like that.
Kyle: It's always been an element, but
it's about, like, doing it together … and if somebody doesn't want to be
involved in that, then recognizing that, and not going after them.
Jim: Right. There have always been people who've done it
in sort of a conscious way; when I saw Narrows play at The Comet Tavern, Dave
Verellen (vocals) made a speech, like, "For those people who don't know,
here are the rules of the pit. Somebody
falls down, you help them up. And tie
your shoes!" (Laughter). "Be careful out there — but have
fun." And Dave was in the crowd for
basically the entire show.
Kyle: And I love that! I want that.
Jim: It makes for an awesome show.
Kyle: Yeah! And to get back to that Black Lodge show,
people were getting me just as good as I was getting them … and, actually, even
worse — some dude ran into me while my back was turned, and I sprained my ankle
really bad. It's still not doing
well. But, you know … it's just what
happens. That's what goes into it — and
you know that going in. I've been to a
million punk and hardcore shows, and every time, there's that chance. I don't know … it is what it is. (Laughter)
Jim: (Laughter) So … the Ancient Shores
split will be out soon; you just have to finalize the artwork, and things like
that …
Kyle: I imagine it'll be out by
mid-to-late Summer.
Jim: The LP is out now …
Kyle: Yeah, we just picked that up last
Friday.
Jim: And you guys are going to be touring
in the U.S. coming up soon?
Kyle: Yeah, we have plans for an East
Coast tour in October. We're going to do
that. I really want to work in a West
Coast tour "soon-ish" — I don't really know what that means, because
we all have jobs, or school … so we'll have to figure it out. Definitely, touring is an aspect that I like
about being in a band. We want to play
to people who haven't seen us before.
Our first tour was really great; it was a great experience, and we met a
lot of really cool people. To me,
hardcore is a live experience. Not
something you listen to on computer speakers!
(Laughter)
Jim: And D.I.Y. touring seems like it's
never been stronger, in a sense. You can
find shows and play with rad bands almost anywhere in the country — and you can
do it almost instantly, with the Internet being what it is.
Kyle: Which I like — but there's also a
trade-off, too. At certain times, bands
go out that shouldn't be touring; they're simply not ready yet … things have
been over-saturated to the point where, if there's a show in your town every
night … and I hate to keep going back to this, but the way things were in the
'90's, you wrote good songs first.
(Laughter) You know what I
mean!? You wrote good songs, you had
something to say — and then you went out and brought it to people. I see a lot of bands that tour. I booked shows for a number of years in Reno
— probably the better part of a decade — and so many people would hit me up for
a show, and it was just like, "Why?
I don't understand. What are you
bringing to the table? What are you
offering here?" Like, you want
people to show up and pay the cover … but, why?
What are you saying in your songs … (shakes head) I don't know. (Laughter)
Jim: It might be a brutal way to look at
it, but at the same time, it's reality.
If you're not ready to play live, or go on tour — don't do it. You'll leave a bad impression with everyone
who sees you.
Kyle: Not only that — it over-saturates
shows to the point that people don't want to go out anymore. If five shows are happening in your town, and
one of them is really good, it'll be overshadowed by all the other ones.
Jim: And someone doesn't really know
which one will be the best, ahead of time.
Kyle: I guess that people think that
touring is super-cool, which it is … but it's a trade-off — it is a sacrifice,
you know? However, I think that this
over-saturation has died down a little bit … maybe four or five years ago, it
was way worse. Every band was trying to
tour, all the time. Now, very few bands
are touring, which I think is kind of a good thing. And I don't mean "package tours"
and "big venues", but D.I.Y. touring.
Anyway, we're doing the East Coast tour, and we're talking about the
West Coast, and possibly going to Europe — which I hope comes through in the
next six months or so.
Jim: Now, Cynarae possibly have some
splits lined up — and you don't have to tell me who those bands are, because
it's theoretical — but would those come before a debut full-length that you
guys would write? As in, you'd put out a
full LP and do the splits later …
Kyle: I'm not really sure. I know that we have songs ready for a 7-inch,
so that will probably happen first — before any splits. After that, we've been talking about three
releases that we have down, so who the hell knows where we're going to be at
that point … I suppose someone could combine all those in a stand-alone release
that would be an LP …
Jim: Like a discography LP.
Kyle: Yeah. I like the idea of an LP, but at the same
time, it's not really on my radar to do that right now. I would rather do splits and 7-inches.
Jim: That's interesting; it would work
well, because the 7-inch format is so brief and biting, and explosive … and if
you could put that sort of energy into that format, then why do an LP? You'd just be diluting the effect of it.
Kyle: Totally — and I can see doing a
live LP; that would be fun! I don't
know. I like different formats and
different experiences. I'm not saying
that we'll never do an LP, because we probably will … but it's a matter of
figuring out the right time for that. We
just got done getting this last split together, and as that was happening, I
was re-formatting the design for the self-titled LP that we have out now … so,
to me, talk about a full-length is a little ways out. I'd love to see it happen, but we'll see when
we get there.
Jim: Do you have any thoughts in
closing? Anything to add? I think we definitely covered almost
everything! (Laughter)
Kyle: Yeah, definitely! In closing, I'm just really excited to be in
a band with people who are very capable musicians — but who are also really
cool people. Our relationship with A389
has been great so far; they're like a "musician's label" — they get
it, they've been great to work with. I
feel good about what Cynarae has done … and I want to do more! I'm just excited about it.
Jim: Awesome! Thanks a lot for your time!
